"Pure Hate"
Apr 08, 2007
You Tube: An interview with Nonie Darwish.
Note the part between 3:08 and 5:11. I didn't have to call friends back "home". I actually went to the Middle East in December of 2001 and saw, read, and heard the vile sickness. That was the final straw for me.
Link via The Islamic Threat.
I made a transcript of the first half (I haven't heard the rest yet):
I think the reason that Muslims don't always admit that that 9/11 was committed by Muslims is NOT that they don't know the truth, but that they want to show that their sympathies are entirely against "the enemies of God" as they see us. Admitting the truth to someone like Nonie would require them to show sympathy for us. And they refuse to do that.
Nonie's problem was that she was condemning the terrorists. And so her friends, in order to maintain some politeness denied the reality. But if she had called them up and said "isn't it wonderful that we are finally getting our revenge on Satan?" then everyone would have agreed with her that it was the Arabs that did it.
Posted by: Josh Scholar | Apr 08, 2007 at 10:40 PM
You have put in words another layer of Islamic lunacy.
Muslims:
A. Believe that 9/11 was caused by Jews / America.
B. Are happy to see those two Towers fall.
One would think if someone believed A, then they'd be very unhappy about 9/11. (Hey, the infidels just started a war on Muslims!) And if someone believed in B, then they'd be glad for those "magnificent 19". (Praise be to Allah!)
The problem is that many Muslims believe in both A and B. So, when it comes to putting the "blame" for 9/11, it's the conniving Jews and when it comes to giving "credit" for the joy of 9/11, it's the lovely Arabs. I know it doesn't make sense but then we're talking about the mainstream Muslim mindset.
Posted by: Isaac Schrödinger | Apr 08, 2007 at 11:13 PM
So you think I'm wrong that if Nonie had called them up and said "isn't it wonderful that we are finally getting our revenge on Satan?" then everyone would have agreed with her that it was the Arabs that did it?
Certainly those who call Bin Ladin a hero mostly admit that he was part of the attack.
Posted by: Josh Scholar | Apr 08, 2007 at 11:18 PM
I wouldn't say everyone but I bet that a majority would have agreed and laughed about it.
Posted by: Isaac Schrödinger | Apr 08, 2007 at 11:23 PM
So when they're talking to someone who is against Jihad then they believe "A" but when they're talking to someone who is in favor of it they don't believe "A"?
Posted by: Josh Scholar | Apr 08, 2007 at 11:28 PM
You can put it like that, yes.
Posted by: Isaac Schrödinger | Apr 08, 2007 at 11:42 PM
Are you sure you're not being naive? Maybe they never believe it, maybe they just lie.
Posted by: Josh Scholar | Apr 08, 2007 at 11:45 PM
That's possible.
Posted by: Isaac Schrödinger | Apr 08, 2007 at 11:48 PM
I suppose there has to be something interesting going on when everyone lies with such vehemence. I'm trying to understand it as well, it's certainly a common pattern; and I think I see defiance as the common emotion underlying it, but I'm seeing from a distance.
It's not entirely clear to me whether:
a) they always know that they're lying
b) In that culture, many people don't bother to distinguish lie from truth and lack self insight.
I would guess that both patterns are fairly common. I would expect it's the most religious Jihadis (who believe that lying for Jihad is a good deed) and the more intelligent who always know when they are lying.
But honesty just seems to be missing as a value. That's probably because, in my opinion, being honest in that culture is too harmful. I think that because the culture is full of abuse of power, because they lack methods of compromise, and because they value outcome over method (so trying your hardest is never an excuse), the only way left open to solve problems is to lie.
Posted by: Josh Scholar | Apr 09, 2007 at 12:13 AM
And the fact that Islam doesn't make lying a sin the way Christianity does must be the biggest factor. Perhaps someone who knows the culture and religious instruction better than I would could determine that lying is commonly encouraged.
Posted by: Josh Scholar | Apr 09, 2007 at 12:18 AM
Or maybe I'm getting too far from the context. Yes lying is common, but lying about Jihad may be a different kind of lying than the others.
Posted by: Josh Scholar | Apr 09, 2007 at 12:49 AM