Straying Can be Deadly
Increasing the Knowledge Base

The Heavy Price

Ralf Goergens showcased the xenophobic part of his mind here. An excerpt:

... there's the question how useful the [Muslim] moderates are to us anyway. It's not as if they staged huge demonstrations against the Islamists, and they also require our protection, lest they be all killed by those same Islamists. I also strongly suspect that the true 'moderate Muslims' have effectively stopped being Muslims at all, and they won't own up to it, for apostasy means yet again death.

This is true for Muslims living in Islamic countries. But what about those who live in the West? The "moderate" Muslims in the West don't deny their religion because they're afraid of being cut off from family and friends. Muslim families are far larger than Western ones. And usually Muslims stick together within their sect / family / Muslim friends. They risk losing likely all of that if they were to speak the truth regarding their beliefs.

Often, the wimpy "moderates" don't even defend the actions of the US against the Taliban or oppose suicide bombings against Israeli civilians because they fear being labeled as pro-American or (heaven forbid!) pro-Jewish by their Muslim family and friends. Many Westerners aren't aware of this deeply anti-American and rabidly antisemitic peer pressure on "moderates" within the Muslim community. It's a sad and ugly reality.


Ralf Goergens

Can't quite agree:

LEIDEN, Netherlands -- As Prof. Afshin Ellian arrived at Leiden University law school one day recently, two bodyguards hustled him through the entrance and past the electronically locked doors leading to his office. For the rest of the day, the men stood sentry outside those doors, scanning the hallways for any sign of the people who want him dead.

Ellian is one of a soaring number of Dutch academics, lawmakers and other public figures who have been forced to accept 24-hour protection or go into hiding after receiving death threats from Islamic extremists. In a country with a tradition of robust public debate and an anything-goes culture, the fear of assassination has rattled society and forced people such as Ellian to reassess whether it's worth it to express opinions that could endanger their lives.

"The extremists are afraid that if Dutch society becomes a safe haven for an intellectual discussion of political Islam, it will be very dangerous for them," said Ellian, an Iranian-born professor of social cohesion who escaped to the Netherlands two decades ago from Afghanistan after receiving death threats from communists there. "This is normal behavior in the Middle East, but not in Europe. They think it's their obligation to kill people they consider to be enemies of Islam."

In other European countries and in the United States, Islamic extremists have generally sought to spread terror with indiscriminate attacks -- bombing trains and hijacking airliners. In the Netherlands, however, radicals have embraced a different strategy: singling out individuals for assassination.

Something you also need to know:

Practically all immigrants running a business or restaurant in Germany and other countries have to pay protection money to organized crime, mostly to mobster with the same ethnic background as themselves. If an Italian owner of a pizzeria in Berlin or Munich gets tired of paying off the Italian mafia, some contract killers get on a plane in Palermo or Napels, he gets 'whacked', and they are gone again before anyone realizes what happened. The same goes for Turks, Albanians, Arabs etc, etc. As far as they know they might just as well get killed for speaking their minds, as refusing to pay protection money.

Of course, you have a point, but the fear goes beyond the threat of mere social isolation.

Even so they could give the police anonympus hints, but mostly they don't.

Ralf Goergens

'anonymous', of course.

Isaac Schrödinger

That's horrific. I didn't know that Europe had perfected some of the traits from Islamist regimes.

My frame of reference was private settings in Saudi Arabia and Canada. I understand why everyone, not simply just "moderates," would keep their mouth shut in the Mordor Kingdom but in Canada the only reason appears to be a almost-total social cut off. The mistake I made was in extrapolating my exclusively private experience in Canada to all of the West.

This would mean that, for now, "moderates" within the Muslim Ummah are better off both financially and socially in North America than in Europe. A shame, then, that they are not taking the opportunity of liberty.

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